Oil pressure

[Richard LarterParticipant]

Hi All

I have a 1949 Light 15 and the oil pressure is around 40psi cold which falls to around 20psi when hot at normal driving speeds and the oil light illuminates at tick over. Should I be concerned?

Cheers  Richard

 

 

[Roger GrixParticipant]

Hi Richard,

What oil are you using? Mono or multi-grade?

This should get some comments 🙂

Sorry, I don’t know what the pressure should be but I would be starting to worry if the pressure light started flickering.

Roger

[David SelfridgeParticipant]

The Oil I have used in all the Tractions that I’ve owned over the years is Halfords for Classic Engines.  The first thing I do after purchasing a Traction,  into my stable, I flush the engine (no oil filter in these engines) then fit the Halfords oil, and to date I never had a problem. I did own a Light 15 that flickered the oil light when ticking over from I purchased to I sold. I covered some 5,000 miles with this car. Not completely certain about oil light pressure but I think oil light comes on at 5 psi which should be OK, start to worry if it lights above tick over.

If you Flush and fit new Oil this should help, by the way the Oil above  was specified by John Gillard many years ago,  and is the only  Oil he would use in a Traction Engine (Good enough for me)

Hope this Helps

Davy

[AlistairParticipant]

My Light 15 (53) does the same. The oil light flickers on tick over and has done since I purchased it some 18 years ago. Oil is changed regularly – used Castrol classic and Millers over the years but light still flicker. Too awkward to get to the oil switch!

Now I worry about the alternator light flickering at low revs – just a poor light contact that needs to be wiggled – but… hey ho!

 

Alistair

[Richard LarterParticipant]

Hi Guys

Thank you for the responses. The engine on my car was stripped and cleaned shortly before I bought the car this year. The first thing I did was change the oil using 20/50 multigrade, I reckoned this would be safe as the engine had been cleaned recently, I also replaced the non operable oil sender unit and the oil pressure gauge. Most cars run with oil pressures over 50psi hot but I know little about pre war designs, perhaps having  an oil pressure gauge is a bad idea. I can raise the tick over a touch and extinguish the oil pressure light.

Cheers  Richard

[ChrisParticipant]

Hi Richard

According to the manual the pressure should be 2 bar to 2.5 bar (~30 to 37 psi) at 1000 rpm at 60-65 degrees C. So yours is a bit low compared to spec.

However – if it’s not making knocking noises I wouldn’t worry about it. Davy’s and Alistair’s experiences seem to bear that out. Keeping the oil topped up to the maximum mark will allow the pump to deliver its best pressure.

Chris

[Richard LarterParticipant]

Thanks Chris that is just the information I was looking for. My oil pressure is low but not a disaster so I will investigate next winter or use 20/60 oil at the next change.

Cheers

Richard

 

 

[Paul BarnardParticipant]

With some trepidation, I fitted an oil pressure gauge to my 1950 11BL last week. I bought it from Frantzens and I have had it for a while – the kit comes with gauge, nylon pipework, and the various olives and connections, including a replacement brass reducer for the back of the block, drilled to take a right angled 2 x male fitting. Imagine my surprise then when trial fitting the reducer, to find that while the size is correct, the thread pitch is wrong(They appear to have supplied a BSP thread). Annoying, but it just meant that I had to drill and tap the original steel plug that I had removed.  I had read that the pressure should be between 2 and 2.5 bar and was nervous when I started the engine but I needn’t have worried as the needle immediately went to sit at 2.5 bar and as it warmed up it gradually dropped back to 2 bar – JOY!

I realise that this is not strictly on Richard’s topic but I thought that it would be worth mentioning the problem with the kit as I assume that this is must be a universal kit and not necessarily specifically for TAs. Out of interest, has/does anyone used any of the ‘proprietary’ oil additives available?

[ChrisParticipant]

Thanks for the info on the kit Paul. (I’ve never used any additives.)

Chris

[David FaulknerParticipant]

Thanks for the info on the kit Paul. (I’ve never used any additives.)

Chris

I used to use Millers Classic 20w50 when my engine was 1st rebuilt (perfo block with 11D Shell bearings) but switched back to a Castrol SAE 30 monograde last year and the car uses/loses less oil now and I don’t use any other ‘additives’

The reason for the switch back to monograde (me and James Geddes decided) was down to having a Roger Williams oil pump fitted as when cold idling I have 4.25 bar (61.5 psi) and whilst running hot down a motorway at 60 mph the car still runs close to 3 bar (43 psi) and the crankshaft front oil thrower appears to struggle to cope with the multigrade but the bonus is that bottom of the car is still mildly lubricated, keeping the underseal soft.  🙂

 

[Larry LewisParticipant]

I’ve been using Castrol synthetic 5W-50 in my 11B for years and haven’t noticed any leakage at the front seal. A Roger Williams pump it has with 3-4 bar when hot at 100KMs and around 2 bar when hot at tickover.

My 11BL with it’s original engine ran really fine. I installed an oil pressure gauge from Jose Franssen. At speed the pressure would gradually decrease to almost nothing. Not good. I could have not installed a gauge and lived in blissful ignorance but no. So, now I’m installing an ID-19 block (I did the 11B back in 1988) with new main and rod bearings (a polished crank with original size bearing journals) and an RW pump so we will see what happens. I should have it in the car this week if all goes well.

[Julian PrattParticipant]

I read with interest the various comments about oil pressure. My Light 15 came with a vast quantity of bills that showed in some detail where the money had been spent. When I first drove the car I was aware of a “rumble”from the engine that sounded very much like worn main bearings. I too bought a oil pressure gauge combined with a water temperature gauge.  After fitting this, I discovered that the oil pressure cold was 30 psi falling to about 10 psi hot and 0 psi when idling! I spoke to Mark Harding  of Devon Tractions and he came round, and together we removed the oil pump (in situ!) and tested it with an electric motor. It was fine, 45 psi constantly. We then took the engine out and measured the mains and looked at the original bills that came with the car. It seemed that the big ends had been ground but the mains “polished”. Only problem was that the mains were now under size!

Short version, Mark got the mains ground, we fitted new bearings and con rods and just to be safe, a new oil pump. I now have 50 psi cold, 40 psi hot and 20 psi on idle.

The water temperature gauge has also been very informative. Once the outside temperature is below about 6 degrees C the water temperature hardly moves off the stop. Obviously this is a very bad thing, as this means the oil does not reach any sort of temperature either. I invested in a Jose Franssen radiator grill “muff”. What a great thing this is! It has 4 flaps that can be opened independently to allow air in if required and looks great. Now at 0 degrees C my water temperature is 130 degrees C

My last point is that we should not be afraid to ask professionals for help, and pay for this if needed. Mark Harding really kept me on the right track all the way through this operation, and the years he has been working on these cars has meant that he really knows what does not work! It is so much cheaper to ask people who really know their stuff. I think Mark has stopped now, but there are a few others. we should support them!

[Julian PrattParticipant]

Correction to my previous post!

I was too lazy to go out and look at the gauge in the car (which is in Fahrenheit) and did the figures from memory……

My car runs in very cold weather between 130 degrees Fahrenheit (55 Centigrade) to 170 degrees Fahrenheit (76 Centigrade) NOT 130 degrees Centigrade

 

 

 

[Richard LarterParticipant]

I agree Julian, the Citroen engine runs too cool.  My Light 15 normally sits at 60 c rising to 80 c on a busy M25 on a hot day! I plan to fit a thermostat to introduce some control.

Cheers Richard

[Philippe AllisonParticipant]

Hi Richard, I don’t often do the forum stuff but on this occasion I thought I might add my bit. 20,000 miles ago in 2012 when I finished re-building my Roadster I spoke to the technical guys at Castro Classic Oils. He new exactly what car I was talking about and recommended XL30 for the engine and ST90 for the gearbox. The gearbox needs ST as it has bronze bush type bearing that are damaged by a standard EP90. The engine oil type is also important as the engine has no filtration system. Modern oils including multi-grades are designed to keep the dirt particles in suspension so that the filter can filter them out, the Classic XL30 allows the dirt to settle out in the sump, when the oil is changed the rubbish goes with it. This is also the reason that the oil should be changed every 1,000 miles. Hot or cold my oil pressure sits at 50psi at tick-over. Roger Williams oil pump.

I have  a thermostat fitted and that works very well and maintains the temperature between 160 and 180 F. (Renault Fuego QH205) This fits inside the top hose but is directional, so push in the right way.

Castrol Classic have a good web site with loads of useful information, you can order direct in 20litre plastic barrels and the shipping is free Last one I bought was £118.95 inc vat. They can be contacted on 01954 231668.

I know this sounds a bit like a Castrol advert, but other makes of classic oils are available and will likely have similar properties.

Good luck Philippe Allison

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