Starting Problem 1952 11BL

[Mike WestmanParticipant]

Hi,

I am looking for help with a couple of queries: I am failing to get my 11BL started after 3 years absence due covid, which I last switched if off, used to start perfectly well (as a 6 volt).  So, I need battery power to turn, spark and fuel…:  I have enough battery power using a powerful 6 volt, and with Chris T’s help have replaced the coil in case (as I couldn’t see a spark from the old glass ones).  Spark is getting to plug and can get both spark and light at the points.  Fuel is getting to pump, float chamber, starter and main jets (having checked all and everything is really clean), BUT I can see no fuel at the plugs, despite multiple churning.  So, Q1, shouldn’t I be seeing by some wetness on the plugs to give me confidence that fuel of some sort is getting to where it should be, as was that just when I used to flood older cars in my youth, or am I missing something between carb throat and plug?

By now, I hear you shouting, “put new fuel in”:  and so Q2. Does anyone have a tried method to get new fuel into the carb apart from draining the half tank of fuel that I still have in a very tight garage. I gather in Australia (where I was stuck for 2  and 1/2 years, though not unpleasantly), they have a product called “Start you bast***” which you spark into the carb!

Many thanks for any assistance, (although maybe my BL may be looking for a trial separation due to my poor maintenance!)

Mike Westman 2170.

[Richard LarterParticipant]

Hi Mike

Two thoughts. You could try squirting some oil down the plug holes in case the bores have dried out with sitting and compression is not being achieved. If that doesn’t work try Easy Start (Start yer Bastard) and if it fires then the problem is not electrical.

Hope this helps

Cheers Richard

[ChrisParticipant]

Holts Cold Start is the same kind of thing as Start ya Bastard. Halfords sell it. There are other brands. You just spay it into the air filter – or into the carb itself. We have a couple of cars that like it if they’ve not been used for a while and their float chambers have dried out.

If you want to get fresh fuel into your carb without emptying the tank, you have a couple of options:

1. One is to disconnect the pipe from the inlet to the fuel pump and have the pump suck from a petrol can with fresh stuff in it. You’ll need a couple of feet or so of flexible fuel pipe. Having the can off the ground will help the pump prime. If it starts you can run the engine like this while you check timing and so on – but you can’t drive anywhere !
2. The other is to just fill the float chamber with fresh fuel. You can do this by pouring fresh petrol into the float chamber through the rubber tube from the pump. Disconnect the tube at the pump outlet and use a small funnel to fill with fresh petrol. The funnel will need to be higher than the carb. This will only make a difference if the float chamber is already empty though. If it is already full no new fuel will be admitted. You can run the engine like this too, if you can find some way to hang the pipe and refill it.

Chris

[Mike WestmanParticipant]

Any ideas please on this continuing problem.  There is spark.  There is fuel getting to float chamber and then to the main jet which is clear, and after churns, there is fuel dripping out of the manifold overflow pipe.  BUT no wet plugs at all, they are as dry as a bone, even after no accelerator or accelerator pressed. Would you expect to have wet plugs after numerous attempts?  – i.e. flooded?  Compression test shows enough compression, so supposedly enough suck.  I am stumped.   If I can answer this one, I have more confidence to start with fuel cans above the engine to by-pass stale fuel in the tank.

Thanks any views

 

[Larry LewisParticipant]

I had this problem while trying to start my car this spring after sitting all winter.  The needle valve in the carb was stuck closed so I smacked the carb with a rubber hammer and all was well. This was after pumping the priming lever about 100 times with no results, then I recalled the same thing happened last spring. Some gentle persuasion and that was it.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Larry Lewis.

[Mike WestmanParticipant]

Hi Larry, and thanks for the idea.  Have had the top off the float chamber, and all seemed well, and as I have fuel coming out of the main jet, the fish hook shaped pipe in the intake and slowing running jet when removed and fuel out of the drain pipe off the manifold, I think fuel is getting that far….

After another suggestion, tried ‘easy start’ sprayed in the plug holes, which resulted in some pops and bangs, suggesting that I have a spark/explosion of some sort, (6 volt + new coil and points maybe not enough to get much reaction, but it was working fine 2 years ago), so I am back to draining the old fuel from the pump onwards and carb/float chamber, and then put new fuel in a can and tube from pump on as per Chris’s suggestion and trying that.

If that fails, I suppose carb off and take a look, but not sure what more I would be achieving, given the above fuel flow…

Regards Mike

 

[Larry LewisParticipant]

From what you have written, it reminds me of my car two weeks ago. Popping, backfiring and finally stalling. I thought the distributor cap was cracked-(that happened before with similar symptoms) and the new cap had no effect. New coil, same. The car would drive for a while and then the backfiring started again. I checked the point gap which wasn’t opening very far and adjusted it (I did it by eye) and I replaced the condensor and all was well. I did check the carb jets but that had no effect either as they were all clear.

[BernieParticipant]

Mike,

you say you have compression.  Also test for suction by removing the air filter and holding a hand over the top of the carb as the starter is operated.

If no reasonable suction can be detected, refer to earlier message re. putting oil into the bores to help the rings to seal.

Assuming you do have adequate suction, clean and dry – and if possible warm – the plugs then refit them and pour about 10ml of  good fuel directly down the carb throat while the engine is turning over on the starter.  If that fails to make the engine fire, repeat without petrol but squirt SYB directly into the carb instead.

Should the above fail to produce even a cough, I would suspect a problem with the spark – despite your previous efforts in that area.

I would therefore go back to the ignition system to confirm timing and check operation of points, condition of rotor, cables, condenser, dizzy cap, etc……..

Good luck,

B….

[Mike WestmanParticipant]

Bernie, (and others) many thanks.  Have suction, and in last attempt with new fuel in carb float bowl and SYB, there was some back firing thru carb with some flame, so back to ignition: Have already changed coil, points, cap, condenser, rotor but have readjusted again, plugs cleaned and re-measured and have seen a healthy spark, and advance/retard mechanism working fine, and will try with new fuel in bowl again and a temporary fuel tank between pump (which pumping well into bowl) and carb.  Frustrating thing is that it started and ran fine when last shut down (albeit 3 years ago when covid enforced a stay abroad), so not a lot could have changed except fuel/stale etc. and the more I change settings, the more I get further away from that stable status..

Dear starter and solid state battery (recharged every attempt) are holding up well with good turnover as 6 volt.

Regards

 

[BernieParticipant]

Mike,
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Some progress then, but backfiring through the carb? ….. if timing is correct this would suggest a sticking inlet valve, possibly closing enough to avoid fouling the piston but leaving a gap allowing the combustion to leak into the manifold leading to ignition of fuel in the carb.</p>
Suggest remove rocker cover and check operation of all valves before making any changes to timing.

B.

[Mike WestmanParticipant]

Well, that’s it….

New fuel in temporary tank, new plugs, leads, coil, condenser, points (and gap seems right), carb float fine, turning over fast with spark, valves’ gaps fine and all doing what they should, suction on intake, and I am sure that it it none of those that are causing grief as it was fine on shut down a while ago.  Most I can get is a blow back once in 20 from carb when I have lost all patience and rules and am playing with choke and accelerator to try and get any reaction or sign of life.

Think it is now a trailer job to John Gillard, as I have run out of patience (and love).  Thanks for all the previous ideas and help.

[BernieParticipant]

You don’t mention the timing ……. I assume you have checked it.

B.

[Dave ThornleyParticipant]

Patience but surely not the love. Cars, like women, can be bloody awkward creatures at time.

[Mike WestmanParticipant]

Bernie, thanks for your perseverance:  Timing bit off and combined with dist. cap carbon brush failure, old points, and some dirt in carb bowl, probably all contributed.  Got going on new fuel, and changed back to the 1/2 tank + of existing tank fuel and still fine. (saves draining off).  Now a seized OSF brake (off not on), so one hell of a pull to the NS to resolve.

Regards Mike

[ChrisParticipant]

Sounds like progress!

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