TOC at the NEC

[Anonymous]

Hullo. My name is Mike and I’m an illustrator from Southampton. I’ve long admired Traction Avants ever since art college well over 20 years ago now. However, I took a different automotive route, and drove a rather clichéd 20 year old Beetle. That did me well for 10 years. Then I took a break from car ownership for several years. When I decided to join the rat race again, now with a young family in tow, I had a hankering for an old campervan. In 2004 we finally found what we were looking for, and after an 18 month overhaul we had it on the road in 2006. We’ve been happily trundling around in it ever since. Road trips, camp outs, break down lorries. I’m sorry, we stuck with what we knew. It’s not an H van.

[attachment=1:jfhwpvwo]4917238049_8d38c19ab0_z.jpg[/attachment:jfhwpvwo]

[attachment=0:jfhwpvwo]5645386029_72f0116df3_z.jpg[/attachment:jfhwpvwo]

But I’m not here to bore you with Volkswagens, although they lead me here … This year our owners club, the Split Screen Van Club, asked us if we would like to display our kombi at the NEC. I know, I thought exactly the same. But they did know it was an old dog. And that was their reasoning. Flattery gets you everywhere. Well, anyway, we had a blast. First time for me, and I was blown away by some of the incredibly rare vehicles there, and the efforts car clubs went to with their displays. We worked hard of course, and by the Sunday I was getting to get a little tired of waxing lyrical about old vans. On my walkabout I discovered the TOC stand, and was welcomed warmly. It was so nice to chat with one of your members, and they showed none of the fatigue that I was suffering! Enthusiastic and knowledgeable, it was a breath of fresh air.

Am I a new convert? Well, I can’t see getting one anytime soon, so for now I will have to remain an armchair admirer. I’ll call it homework/research in case the slim chance of owning one comes my way!

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the forum….

I am betting the sale of that splitty would cover the cost of a decent Traction specially if you were to come over to France for your search. My first cars were beetles, in fact my first one came with a broken engine and I rebuilt the whole engine in my shed in Saltash. Then found out the door of the shed was to thin to get the engine out 😆 I swapped engines between my beetle and my ’72 combo when times got tough and only had one good engine between them. Then we went off to ascension island for a year and bought a beach buggy which was shipped over with us. A great year in the sun with two small kids – photo of it even got into Volks World at the time.

I would love a splitty van though. Maybe if this Traction Renovation doesn’t kill me I might get back into a VW of some sort – I much prefer the air-cooled stuff…hence I have a couple of 2CVs to mess around with.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ian. The Kombi is a keeper, unfortunately that does restrict me somewhat – both financially and in the available space I have!

Bringing forward the ugly subject of money, you are correct, the kombi is worth a few quid. It’s part of the scene that actually turns me off. I’m not sure if it’s exclusive to VW’s, but splitscreens especially have had a popularity explosion in recent years, with an obvious knock on effect with to their value. Our rusty project cost an eye watering £5,500 in 2004. A lot of dosh then for something that needed quite a lot of welding, and a mechanical overhaul. It was also an empty van, no camper interior. I overhauled it myself, learnt to weld on it, got a old cabinet maker friend to make a copy of a 1959 Devon camper interior. I did it all on a very tight budget, and then proceeded to use it like an old Aussie farm truck! It’s a workhorse, and I treat it like one. If I had to buy one like it today, I couldn’t even come close to being able to afford it, and that saddens me. (It’s around the 20K mark 😮 ) So many people today are now priced out of owning them, and just 20 years ago the scene was so different, they were unpopular, unvalued and unloved? (I remember going out with a mate in the mid 90’s and he picked on up for £150!)

I’d love to find a similar condition old barn find Traction or DS though 🙄

[Anonymous]

There is a DS Pallas on car and classic for £550…. It’s in Tyne & Wear (so not far from me) but it needs an interior, door window glass and a rear screen as a minimum.

There aren’t many Tractions I have seen at that price, but there are still some sub £5k ones (less in France) that require lot’s of love and as Ian is finding out, quite a bit of cash.

[Anonymous]

The £550 DS sounds too good to be true! I know I have very little experience of old cars in general, but also I’ve never owned anything newer than me. (1973) Never underestimate a project … (Starts looking for DS interiors and back windows … 🙄 )

Anyway, while surfing I spotted this from one of my flickr chums. This would do me nicely. I wouldn’t touch a thing on it.

In rust we trust… by CitroenAZU, on Flickr

[Anonymous]

Which makes me think … is originality and patina appreciated in old Citroens? I had fun going around the NEC looking for cars in their original factory paint, they were few and far between! But surfing the web flags quite a few original looking old Citroens … 2CV AND H vans especially. In VW circles it is called the ‘Rat Look’ by some, but they also like to lower and modify them. I don’t call mine a ‘Rat’, it’s just original. I suppose others would liken it to ‘shabby chic’. Is it popular, or at least accepted, here as well?

I can understand different generations have different perceptions of it. Lots of ‘youngsters’ (or rather people who like to act like youngsters!) in the VW scene. To them a 1960 car is ancient. They might have a different perspective to someone born several decades earlier and can remember 1960, when the car was shiny and new!

[Anonymous]

Interesting van you have there, Mike. My brother bought a 66 split window van many years ago from an old, old man who built a camper interior in it. It had a 6-to-12 volt convertor and connected to that was a 12-to-120 volt convertor so he could watch television. 🙄 The 120 volt convertor was grounded to the body of the van! ❗ The T.V. antenna was mounted on a bracket on the passenger side of the van and the antenna was something that you would put on the roof of a house, it looked ridiculous! As soon as we got it home, that came off with a hacksaw. It also would supposedly start on 12 volts as it had 2 six volt batteries for that purpose and would run on 6. Naturally none of that worked and I had the privilege of fixing it all.
Cleaning it out one day, we found some very old black-and-white pornography tucked under a drawer. 😮 I guess he wasn’t a very clean old man. Another thing he showed us was a 1958 Corvette that he bought new and had 24,000 miles on it. Amazing! Another thing that’s amazing is the prices these old VW vans go for these days! One sold at an American auction for $160,000.00 or thereabouts.

[Anonymous]

@Quiet Mike wrote:

Which makes me think … is originality and patina appreciated in old Citroens? I had fun going around the NEC looking for cars in their original factory paint, they were few and far between! But surfing the web flags quite a few original looking old Citroens … 2CV AND H vans especially. In VW circles it is called the ‘Rat Look’ by some, but they also like to lower and modify them. I don’t call mine a ‘Rat’, it’s just original. I suppose others would liken it to ‘shabby chic’. Is it popular, or at least accepted, here as well?

I can understand different generations have different perceptions of it. Lots of ‘youngsters’ (or rather people who like to act like youngsters!) in the VW scene. To them a 1960 car is ancient. They might have a different perspective to someone born several decades earlier and can remember 1960, when the car was shiny and new!

Mine definitely tends towards the scruffier end of the spectrum. I don’t know what paint, if any, is original, but I do know that no two panels look the same 😀 Works for me, and I have no plans to change it.

Nice van, agreed it’s a shame how popularity can effectively kill a car for the budget enthusiast.

[Anonymous]

@OSL282 wrote:

There aren’t many Tractions I have seen at that price, but there are still some sub £5k ones (less in France) that require lot’s of love and as Ian is finding out, quite a bit of cash.

But luckily I was given mine for free by my neighbour so hopefully only sinking €6K into a fully restored car (with power steering 😀 ). But I have seen many for around €5K which made me feel a little down as I could have bought one that runs for the same money.

But for the first year at least it will be “Barn Find” on the outside, mainly due to budget but also I just want to have a bit of fun with it. Inside, underneath and the engine will be “hopefully” in perfect condition.

[Anonymous]

That sounds about right! Old UK vans are in a minority here now, they never survived well. There was too long a period of them being unpopular and most would have been scrapped after years of crappy repairs. The remaining ones are pretty lucky! Plenty of imports about though, and no one seems bothered about running a LHD anymore. I know I looked for a RHD, and paid a grand or more because of that, but really, after driving both, it’s not a big deal at all. (If I was seriously looking for a Citroen, what side the steering wheel was on would not be a consideration.)
A full on restoration project has just gone up for sale, a rare UK 1958 Devon (first year of Devon production). It’s fairly complete but in a bad way. £12,000 – and everyone thinks that is way too cheap!

And if anyone has too much time on their hands, and wants a break from old black and white pornography, this restoration thread on my club forums page is an amazing time killer …
http://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=77632
I didn’t even think this bus was worth parting out! Amazing the lengths people go to on old buses, and I wonder if it sets benchmarks for other marques of cars?
I’m assuming if you got a restoration company to restore your traction, that it would end up costing more than the car was worth at the end of it? I know people get carried away with campers, and sink £40k + in them, when they are only worth £30k at the end of it …

@L.Lewis wrote:

Interesting van you have there, Mike. My brother bought a 66 split window van many years ago from an old, old man who built a camper interior in it. It had a 6-to-12 volt convertor and connected to that was a 12-to-120 volt convertor so he could watch television. 🙄 The 120 volt convertor was grounded to the body of the van! ❗ The T.V. antenna was mounted on a bracket on the passenger side of the van and the antenna was something that you would put on the roof of a house, it looked ridiculous! As soon as we got it home, that came off with a hacksaw. It also would supposedly start on 12 volts as it had 2 six volt batteries for that purpose and would run on 6. Naturally none of that worked and I had the privilege of fixing it all.
Cleaning it out one day, we found some very old black-and-white pornography tucked under a drawer. 😮 I guess he wasn’t a very clean old man. Another thing he showed us was a 1958 Corvette that he bought new and had 24,000 miles on it. Amazing! Another thing that’s amazing is the prices these old VW vans go for these days! One sold at an American auction for $160,000.00 or thereabouts.

[Anonymous]

If I was going to look properly, I guess realistically I’d look for a scruffy original car for around €5k … And assume the welder would get a work out to keep it on the road 😆
Can anyone point me towards some good project threads? So I know what’s involved in keeping these on the road? I think I saw one for a Traction Avant in Essex, that was getting the works .(looks at bookmarks … http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?s=936d816d2f8b0693dc7ebeb488954a76&t=126926 )

@tripyrenees wrote:

@OSL282 wrote:

There aren’t many Tractions I have seen at that price, but there are still some sub £5k ones (less in France) that require lot’s of love and as Ian is finding out, quite a bit of cash.

But luckily I was given mine for free by my neighbour so hopefully only sinking €6K into a fully restored car (with power steering 😀 ). But I have seen many for around €5K which made me feel a little down as I could have bought one that runs for the same money.

But for the first year at least it will be “Barn Find” on the outside, mainly due to budget but also I just want to have a bit of fun with it. Inside, underneath and the engine will be “hopefully” in perfect condition.

[Anonymous]

When I started mine I looked at that thread – scared me to death the amount of detail they went to and also them having the two cars to work with. But if you tone it down a bit then it is not too bad. I am, however, wire wheeling every nut and bolt just like they did 😯

I think I was lucky as the only welding necessary was the front floor section and this was after the car had stood on wooden blocks for 42 years. There is some surface rust on the roof (bubbling) but that was more to do with the degraded tarp that was covering it. I might start looking myself in the local area to get a better idea for a 2nd project car (now I have all the tools and recent experience).

Check out my thread under projects (“Barn Find”)

[Anonymous]

@Quiet Mike wrote:

(If I was seriously looking for a Citroen, what side the steering wheel was on would not be a consideration.)

I’m assuming if you got a restoration company to restore your traction, that it would end up costing more than the car was worth at the end of it? I know people get carried away with campers, and sink £40k + in them, when they are only worth £30k at the end of it …

With a Traction or DS the conversion to RHD leaves less room in the footwell for the pedals as the bulkhead is offset (worse again on small bodied Slough Light 15’s and Paris BL’s) so for me, LHD is a more ‘comfortable drive.

As for paying ‘labour’ charges to a restorer, your unlikely to get your money back on a Traction unless it’s a rare Pre War Cabriolet or Coupe………………………..

[Anonymous]

I am 6′ 5″ tall with big feet and don’t have any problems in my Light 15. Mind you I am used to driving an Austin 10 which is slightly more compact.

[Anonymous]

@norustplease wrote:

I am 6′ 5″ tall with big feet and don’t have any problems in my Light 15. Mind you I am used to driving an Austin 10 which is slightly more compact.

You would struggle in my kombi though! Bench seat, no adjustment, limited leg room with a sterring wheel around your knees, hunched from peering out through the low windscreen ….

My mucka ‘Tall Fella’ Tim wrapped around the steering wheel, after hoofing the indicator stalk out of the way of his knee. He size 11 foot struggled with the upright throttle as well. He was used to later Bay Windows, which have a much better driving position.

Co pilot Tim at the wheel by zombikombi1959, on Flickr

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