Tyres 16 inch or 400?

[Anonymous]

@tractionavant1939 wrote:

I would be very interested to get the opinion of an expert like Longstone tyres. Personally there is no way I would fit the wrong size tyres or ride in a car that had them fitted. Its a good job Mot’s have been abolished for these cars!!

Your wish is my command:

Dougal@longstone responded with the following:

Hi Mick

I’m sorry to say, everything is wrong with Taxi tyres:

Here are the lesser issues:
· The diameter is a bit wrong. A 175R16 is 685mm and 165R400 is 677mm and the 185R400 is 707mm.
· A 175R16 will tend to have the width of a 185 tyre, so heavy, on the steering, but again not a major issue because I believe the 15 fitted a 185R400 anyway.
· They look dreadful.

More serious issues

· A taxi tyre carcase is designed to do completely different work. It is designed for turning round on a sixpence, mounting curbs, and only ever driving round town at very slow speeds on a completely different vehicle to a Traction Avant.

· Totally wrong load and speed ratings; Although it is fair to say that a Ttraction does not need the 112mph speed rating, and 87mph is probably enough; a taxi tyre is designed to carry almost quarter of a tonne more weight, at a very low speed. If you feel the side wall of these tyres it is immediately obvious that it has a completely different structure to what is suited to the Traction..

· If you get it to balance, you will be very lucky to have mounted the tyre centrally on the rim, or you are using balance weights to kid your balancing machine into thinking the tyre is actually round when it isn’t. 400mm is 400mm; 16” is 406.4mm. If you put a 406mm tyre on a 400mm rim it will probably not sit centrally, and then not be round.

Danger! Danger!

· Because the tyre is not tight on the rim, the inner tube may well puncture as the pressure in the tube pushes the tube in between the tyre and the rim.

· Tyres should be tight on their rim. When you have a modern tyre fitted to your rim, you hear a big slap as it jumps up onto the rim. That is due to the safety rib that you don’t have on a Traction rim, but also because tyres must be tight on their rim. Which may well slip under braking, or slip off under cornering.

It is not about how you intend to drive your car. It is about what you do when some numpty pulls out in front of you and you are forced to take emergency action.

The only reason to fit the 16” tyre is because they used to be comparatively very cheap.

The Euro however has been very kind to us recently and currently the correct 165SRR400 Michelin X is only £ 129.50 + VAT

(Mick’s note: VAT £25.90. Total £155.40)

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/165r400-michelin-x.html

On top of that if you ring us up we give club discounts to people that haggle, just ring us on 01302 711123

Mick’s Note: Sounds Like an Opportunity not to be missed!

We are also currently running a special offer on this web page http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/citroen-traction-avantwhere you can buy 4 tyres for £ 465 and a set of 5 for £ 580 (all + VAT with free carriage or fitting).

Mick’s Note: VAT on 4 = £93 Total = £558.00, VAT on 5 = £116, Total = £696 (Less than £140 per Tyre) – Free Fitting In Bawtry (5 Miles south of M18/A1 Interchange) or at any of the events they attend (including NEC)

Also don’t forget these tyres are made by Michelin; Arguably the world’s best tyre manufacturer, but also the same company that made your car.
Radial tyres were first made in conjunction with the Traction Avant in the size 165R400 Michelin X.

Vintage Top Gear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jFqB4M8_1c

Regards

Dougal
E: dougal@longstonetyres.co.uk
T: 01302 711123
Longstone Tyres

[Anonymous]

Interesting but very interested in what the major manufacturers of Taxi tyres would have to say on their tyres being classed as dangerous. Under EU law tyres have to comply with structural tests, tyres that are not passed fit to use on the highway have a stamp on them to that effect the rest are given a speed rating. I had my rims measured and they were within 2 or 3 mm of the tyres inner reading. A difference so small it is worth remembering that expansion or reduction in the sizes caused by temperature difference would make it insignificant. Strong sidewalls are a advantage since the ability to withstand being curbed plus surviving the potholes is in my mind a bonus. The road holding regarding grip and ride are fine but yes the steering is a bit heavier.
I would not have fitted these tyres out of choice, mainly because being new to Tractions I would have not known they were a possibility. However since they do the job and are all new I will use them until either they wear out or I find a problem.
I must admit that I do not think £150ish for a single tyre is a bargain and with my friends contacts in China will have to see what the devilish Chinese can come up with in the future.
One other thing is that Taxis shooting down the M4 to Heathrow hit 70mph plus, does this mean their putting passengers at risk because their tyres are classed dangerous at this speed?

[Anonymous]

I’m with Dougal on this and thanks for the pint at Beaulieu! The only vendor with their own cask of real ale! Cheers! 😀

[Anonymous]

Firstly, I bought my tires from Longstone and I am very impressed with them, free shipping to France and they worked out cheaper than actually buying from France (which I do not understand myself). Being new to Tractions at the time I replaced the tires like for like and when I got this car it had 155R400 units on. I now have the same as I cannot afford to change them for 165R400s which I found out later to be the correct units for an 11B ’55.

But I must say that Douglal does have a vested interest in promoting original tires as it is his business so I would not have thought it is not a totally objective appraisal.

I have spoken to quite a few Tracitonistes who are part of the Sans Frontier clan and they are driving on 185 16″ units due to the massive miles they are putting there cars though (last one, the polar tour was 9000km), they have had no problems and talk as if using modern tires is just the “norm”. I agree with Baz that the sizing difference is negligible when it comes to tolerances in rubber, rims and inner tubes and with Douglal on the fact that Tractions are not doing excessive speeds.

I spent months looking for a manufacturer of modern (retro) rims that would suit the traction and a modern 16″ tires. I found one guy in France but he died about 20 years ago (so even then they were doing it). I had figured buying new rims plus modern tires was still cheaper than buying within the very limited market of 165R500’s.

I know, I know, you should always buy the correct tire but when the price is as high as it is and there are zero other options than Michelin, I do feel I am being a little ripped off.

I will make my 155’s last and hopefully the prices may come down a bit……ooh what is that pink thing in the sky 😆 😆

[Anonymous]

………..

[Anonymous]

I’m with Den and Mick on this one. My car came with Michelins which I replaced due to their age and sidewall cracking, with the correct spec Michelin Radials.

What puzzles me though and what no one has yet mentioned, is what the pre war Tractions ran on as standard before Michelin started producing the ‘X’ commercially in 1946?

Cats site gives wheel sizes for the different variants http://www.cats-citroen.net/citroen_tractionavant/ta_history_parts.html#wheels but not what actual tyres were used

[Anonymous]

…………

[Anonymous]

Have you measured your standard modern car wheel and a modern standard tyre? I have and the difference is exactly the same as that on the wheel and tyre combination I have. Since I am obviously missing something please explain to me how a tyre passed as legal for use on the road and being used within the spec of vehicle weight etc can be classed as unfit for use. Just how the tyre can come off the rim applies to any tyre including the Michelin 400. Of course if there was a accident and it warranted inspection I would be worried if there were any modifications away from standard that are not registered with the insurance company but since I have already listed every change already made and those due to be done in the near future I feel confident of my position. I am willing to listen to a valid argument but using emotive terms without proof is in my opinion nothing more than scare stories. Still once I have finished the current round of work I will be going to our local airport and give the car a real thrashing and see if I can dislodge a tyre or shred a inner tube. I might even sacrifice the spare by running it flat and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

…………

[Anonymous]

Found them on the Michelin site Den, Superconfort: http://www.michelinclassic.com/en/Classic-Tyre-range/SuperConfort-Stop-S

Looking on the web for them though they cost more than Michelin X Radials which I assume is down to low demand for them.

As for the ‘arguments’ on the differences between the Michelins developed on and for the Traction Avant, all I can say is that roadholding is great in the wet or dry with X’s fitted and don’t now fit anything to any of my cars that the manufacturer didn’t specify for it, as that is all that keeps a car on the road and helps it come to a stop.

I have tried ‘intermediate’ (never ‘budget’) brands on some previous cars with results that didn’t inspire confidence in their abilities so gave up on them (worst being ‘Nankangs’ on a Morris Minor I once bought).

However, it’s everyones personal choice in what they fit, all we can do is express an opinion and our reasons why we make the choices we do.

[Anonymous]

As you know Dave I have a wedding car company and use my Tractions: http://tractionweddingcars.co.uk.

I cannot and will not compromise the security of my passengers.

[Anonymous]

In case you missed it, Dougal has a Youtube clip on the Michelin X and the earlier “Super confort”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrfHsyfjx-E&authuser=0

BTW, He’s more than happy for you to ring him and discuss any questions that you may have regarding Tyres for any classic car… and no, I’m not on a commission!

[Anonymous]

Dougal also sent me this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBSw_8zaBGU

which has nothing to do with 16 inch tyres, and everything to do with Dougal!

It says it all

Enjoy!

[Anonymous]

I met Dougal at Arras in 2009. I asked him about Coker tires in the States, how they say that they’re the only authorised agent for vintage Michelins. Dougal said that was a “load of bollocks!” 😆

[Anonymous]

Yes, well he would wouldn’t he….
Great character!

[Author]

Posts