Censorship

[Anonymous]

Once again in the new FP we have a comment that this Forum is for technical stuff only and that other posts will be removed. It seems our committee is out of touch and frightened of any uncensored comments on their performance. The fiasco of the birthday bash and lack of space for members would have been over before it could have been sorted using FP. It seems pretty obvious that anyone with a view different to the President and his number two will not be tolerated. Nazi Germany only came about because of censorship being allowed to gradually creep in.

[Anonymous]

Nazi Germany? That’s a little harsh.

[Anonymous]

Not really I am against censorship and it is a historical fact that censorship crept in from many sides to create Nazi Germany.

[Anonymous]

Will be interesting to see if this post remains, not home at the moment and the latest FP is not on the site.

[Anonymous]

I have been a member of the TOC Committee for a few years and I am so upset today to read comments comparing us to Nazi Germany. As committee members we have always strived, in our own time, to try and serve the interests of the members and to ensure the Club has grown and remained financially sound.
I have checked with the organisers of the annual rally and anyone who added their names to the waiting list were able to attend the Rally as some members had to drop out for a variety of reasons.
The Committee set up the Forum in good faith to help members. An opportunity to ask technical questions and seek advice on running a Traction from other members of the Club.
Censorship does not exist but I do not think it is acceptable for such abuse to be written about human beings that this member has never met personally.
I will not be posting anything further on this Forum but I hope other members on the site are equally upset by this totally unnecessary and unjustified personal attack of the TOC Committee.

[Anonymous]

Mr Bazessex,

You will see that the forum administrator has allowed your post to stand – and why not . Presumably as you intended, some 650 club members are now all witness to your deliberations.

A recurring theme to your posts is that you feel qualified to pronounce on what you perceive as the TOC committee’s shortcomings yet, you have never attended a club committee meeting and have no knowledge of how the club committee works.

I have read your reply to my (earlier) invitation to attend a TOC committee meeting, and I note that you seem sensitive to the fact that your contributions to the forum have not been particularly well received. If you feel that the club is not serving your needs you have at least two choices. If you elect to stay in the club and if you are serious about seeing changes made within the committee (and the club) you should to inform yourself on how the committee works. May I cordially repeat my invitation to you to attend a committee meeting and see how it works.

On another matter…. The TOC National Rally was advertised in the January February 2016 copy of FP. Members were invited to sign up sooner rather than later. Those who, for whatever reason were dilatory in signing up were (invited FP May June 2016) to attend the rally on the Sunday. So far as I understand it, all who wished to attend the rally in whole or in part did so.

We had members and cars from Norway, Holland. Belgium, France and the UK in attendance. Below is a link to photographs of what was a very successful event. Enjoy !!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tx8sh60lbxgfrqc/AAB3SZVL9hIwuTSxRCQPGVD0a?dl=0

Regards

Martin de Little

[Anonymous]

@martindelittle wrote:

Mr Bazessex,

You will see that the forum administrator has allowed your post to stand – and why not . Presumably as you intended, some 650 club members are now all witness to your deliberations.

A recurring theme to your posts is that you feel qualified to pronounce on what you perceive as the TOC committee’s shortcomings yet, you have never attended a club committee meeting and have no knowledge of how the club committee works.

I have read your reply to my (earlier) invitation to attend a TOC committee meeting, and I note that you seem sensitive to the fact that your contributions to the forum have not been particularly well received. If you feel that the club is not serving your needs you have at least two choices. If you elect to stay in the club and if you are serious about seeing changes made within the committee (and the club) you should to inform yourself on how the committee works. May I cordially repeat my invitation to you to attend a committee meeting and see how it works.

On another matter…. The TOC National Rally was advertised in the January February 2016 copy of FP. Members were invited to sign up sooner rather than later. Those who, for whatever reason were dilatory in signing up were (invited FP May June 2016) to attend the rally on the Sunday. So far as I understand it, all who wished to attend the rally in whole or in part did so.

We had members and cars from Norway, Holland. Belgium, France and the UK in attendance. Below is a link to photographs of what was a very successful event. Enjoy !!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tx8sh60lbxgfrqc/AAB3SZVL9hIwuTSxRCQPGVD0a?dl=0

Regards

Martin de Little

I did see the adverts for the birthday bash from the start but there was no description of what was planned and since I had never been to a event I had no idea what to expect. After the not so warm welcome when attending the NEC by a few members I was reluctant to lay out a lot of money without some idea of what would happen. In the following issues no mention was made that unless you booked a room you could not attend. Had I not said something on this forum nothing could have been sorted in the timescale. There may well have been spaces available at short notice but I was not waiting until the last minute to take a chance.
Lack of knowing how this committee works does not mean that I cannot say what I think does it? I liked the telling comment that the committee allowed the forum only for discussion on technical matters, who gave them the right to impose restrictions? Surely the membership should decide what appears on their forum? For some members from abroad the forum is the club. The committee seems to have done a sterling job to date of alienating people and causing them to leave.
Looking at back copies of FP I do not need to see the recent event because it will just show all the same as before. I could go on but cannot see the point but I would add I just repeat the comments I have heard and agree with. When the President of the club thinks it highly hilarious to attack people who made genuine observations on here as a whingers or was it moaners club it shows just what the people at the top think of the ordinary members.

[Anonymous]

I read the comments made by bazessex and was deeply saddened that someone should think so little of the Committee’s efforts to post such inflammatory comments.
Everyone on the existing Standing Committee are real enthusiasts of the marque and unlike the Nazi Party are not forced to carry out their duties, but give their time and effort freely.
I was one of the Committee who was getting a little concerned about the content of the Forum, it seemed to me that it had become a sounding board for some members to make derogatory comments about other members and also using the Forum to discuss other matters, which had no relevance to the Traction at all. The Forum was established, so that members could discuss any technical issues they may have and that fellow members may be able to help them with. I felt the subjects were getting so diversified that a cooking or perhaps a knitting section were about to be added to the content.
I think the word Censorship is ridiculous; like the magazine the content of the Forum should be subject to the Administrators final approval; the content may be edited and provided it is relevant to the Traction is open for publication. I do not want the Forum to be used as a general discussion platform; there are plenty of other sites you can do that on.
I feel it is grossly unjust to label a group of enthusiasts, who are willing to stand as Committee members as Nazis and I would ask bazessex to issue an unreserved apology for such a comment.

[Anonymous]

Meggerman, You say that you are or were a member of the committee, what is your real name?

[Anonymous]

Hi Den,

It’s Steve Reed

[Anonymous]

Hi Steve,

When the forum is redesigned can it please be insisted that real names are used instead of aliases.

[Anonymous]

@meggerman57 wrote:

I read the comments made by bazessex and was deeply saddened that someone should think so little of the Committee’s efforts to post such inflammatory comments.
Everyone on the existing Standing Committee are real enthusiasts of the marque and unlike the Nazi Party are not forced to carry out their duties, but give their time and effort freely.
I was one of the Committee who was getting a little concerned about the content of the Forum, it seemed to me that it had become a sounding board for some members to make derogatory comments about other members and also using the Forum to discuss other matters, which had no relevance to the Traction at all. The Forum was established, so that members could discuss any technical issues they may have and that fellow members may be able to help them with. I felt the subjects were getting so diversified that a cooking or perhaps a knitting section were about to be added to the content.
I think the word Censorship is ridiculous; like the magazine the content of the Forum should be subject to the Administrators final approval; the content may be edited and provided it is relevant to the Traction is open for publication. I do not want the Forum to be used as a general discussion platform; there are plenty of other sites you can do that on.
I feel it is grossly unjust to label a group of enthusiasts, who are willing to stand as Committee members as Nazis and I would ask bazessex to issue an unreserved apology for such a comment.

Since when are you the only person allowed to say what is allowed on a forum? Surely the membership should decide what is allowed to be on a forum and as long as there is no personal abuse why should subjects be restricted.
Since I have never said any member of the committee is a Nazi I see no need for an apology, my comparison was to history which is there for all to read,but I do see a need for one from the President for his comments.
It seems you are offended for a comment so join the club.
This club needs to move into the modern era of electronic communications and take on board the fact that a forum allowing all discussion is far better to be on it’s own website where it sees and can react to comments than on a entirely independent one which could cause untold damage.
I am not interested in internal squabbles and do not take sides, I genuinely want a club where all are welcome and invited to meet fellow members.
It is quite ironic that people are popping up to defend this stance on the forum but I have never seen a comment or any useful input from them before.

[Anonymous]

I have read my copy of F-P from cover to cover and can’t find any statement that “that other posts will be removed”. I guess the comment refers to the word “moderated”.
Every forum I have ever come across has a moderator. The club, as proprietor and publisher is responsible for the content and has to be able to take down offensive and inappropriate content. The committee, as directors of the club, carry that responsibility.
There is nothing unreasonable here and I believe the club would be running an unacceptable risk if it was responsible for a forum without any form of guidelines and moderation. in fact, i doubt i would want to be associated with a forum that didn’t have effective moderators.
I’m a regular member of 19-ish years. I pay my subscription and expect the committee, whom we the membership elects, to manage the club and spend our money in the interests of the membership. The committee are directors of the club and carry the legal liability – ordinary members carry none. There’s a process for discussing the running of the club which Martin has described. I know, however, from discussions with committee members, that there is a genuine and immediate desire to ensure that this club relevant and attractive to new members in order to promote enthusiasm for the Traction.
The forum was set up for exchange of information of car related topics – it was not designed for more than that – that’s not to say it couldn’t or shouldn’t be – but the place to discuss if and how it should be is therefore not on the forum. If we expect to discuss the running of the club on this forum – which means a public dialogue, questions and responses in real time – we would need the committee to agree on how the forum was monitored and by whom, how quickly responses were given, and what the process would need to be for discussing those responses before posting them? What would be open-forum, what would be done via the forum’s Private Message facility. It would need to be agreed how this forum-based process tied in with the established committee meetings – for example would something discussed on a forum need to be re-discussed and voted on in a committee meeting and entered into the minutes before it became a decision – and if so, what is the status of an agreement in the mean time? Etc. Since I am not on the committee, I have no more idea than any other member if any of this has been discussed at all in any committee. But I don’t expect it has because it would not have been necessary for a forum set up solely for exchanging techy type information between members. Similarly it is not a concern for the internet-only forums to which we might want to compare this one. They have no money and no club to run. But on the other hand they all still have legal liabilities for their posted content and all therefore have moderators who take action when they need to and, unlike this forum, they do ban members.
So – what to do?
Martin, who is a committee member, has invited Bazessex to discuss to attend a committee meeting and on June 15th Bazessex asked “Anyone fancy coming to the next committee meeting and putting our points forward?” Nobody replied publicly to either invitation but it seems there is agreement that a discussion at the next committee meeting would be in order..
I would also like to contribute to a discussion about how to move forward – so can we do this at the next committee meeting which is, per FP, on Sept 11th in Flitwick? Questions such as Den’s about identification should be included.
I would hope the outcomes would be that:
– a member who makes valuable and interesting contributions on the forum would feel he has been listened to
– some constructive suggestions are made and discussed
– and at least one proposal emerges that can be discussed at the AGM which in on October 23rd in Steventon

Regards
Chris (Bailey)

[Anonymous]

Due to the offensive nature of this topic which breaks the rules of the forum the committee has decided to moderate all of bazessex’s future posts. Comparing anybody to a Nazi, the implication was implied and intentional even if not actually in the same sentence, has forced this action.
Any posts following the purpose and rules of the forum will be posted, the committee does not want to censor anybody but such defamatory remarks cannot continue.
Please remember this is a car club and the intention of the forum is to help and inform members.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps some of the irritation stems yet again from the ‘President’s Ponderings’. For two issues in a row he’s taken a pop at posters on this forum.
The first was a direct attack, and unsurprisingly it sparked off a reaction.
The second ‘go’ was in the the latest July/August issue. It was actually a surprising well crafted piece, as on the surface it seemed entirely innocent, even going as far as an apology.
But read the first paragraph carefully and you will note it was tinged with a heavy note of sarcasm, no doubt directed at those that dared to take offence to his previous musings.
He also did well to paint the picture of an incident of paltry significance ‘one member considered some of what I said…… to have been ill-conceived’. Concluding the paragraph with the the sarcastic remark ‘thanks to those who uttered kind words of support in one of my darkest hours’. ‘Darkest hour’? that phrase coined by Winston Churchill? Here we go, the Second World War gets another mention! As if it was a dark hour, more like a mere zephyr in a teacup to our esteemed Mr President!
Anyhow, the mini uprising has been suppressed. The usurpers have either been disposed of or silenced. Touché Mr President. Status quo restored.

[Author]

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