Touring in Europe

[128Participant]

I last toured France towing a caravan with my RHD Light 15 (KYO 745) in 1981. I have in recent years had a yen to tour again (France, Spain, Germany, Italy) for 2 or 3 weeks but without caravan. My wife is now reducing her working as a teacher so we can go away in June and July this year. Whether it is sensible for a 76 year old to tour with a 74 year old car is still exercising me but I would like to seek whatever advice any of you can give me. I would be the sole driver as the steering and brakes are too heavy for my wife. The car is in good condition and used quite a lot when the weather is warm.

Obvious questions are: How available is low ethanol petrol (In the UK I try to use only 5%)? What spares and tools should I take? Any services or help available in these countries? I don’t want to have a rigid timetable, so are there any hotel/restaurants with rooms chains one can be reasonably confident of getting into at short notice? What is the best way of adapting the headlights for colour and dip? Are LEZ’s and ULEZ’s becoming a problem? Should I fit an extra mirror on the n/s (as I did for the caravan)?  With increasing temperatures, should I fit a cooling fan and temperature g/g? Any recommendations for insurance/breakdown recovery? Ferry or Eurotunnel?

Thanks for any advice. Nigel Orchard Member 128

[Jack PeppiattParticipant]

Hello Nigel,

I am older than you by a little, my light 15 is from 1950. Touring in France and Spain is in my experience straightforward and delightful. In the last four years we have driven from Santander to the UK, from UK to Bergerac and back via NE Paris, Normandy and elsewhere. I think my total mileage in France last year was nearly 2,000 miles.

I would suggest that you use the car as much as possible in the UK in all sorts of conditions before setting foot abroad, be sure the car is in good working order and that you have given it the miles, the beans and that is reliable and symptom free. Dont be too worried about 10% ethanol, I used 5% when it was available and 10% when not. If it boils in the UK it will probably boil in Europe, fix it first, dont add complication, ie electric fan or pump. Yes of course have European breakdown cover, it comes as standard with cover from RH Insurance for instance. Carry the V5C, insurance document, both original, and a means of ID, passport for instance. A warning triangle, yellow vest, spare bulbs, I dont drive at night, so do not bother with headlight adaptors, but the black cut out versions can be used (I dont think you are going to cause anyone discomfort)

How competent are you as a mechanic? Take tools appropriate to your skill level. I take all the electrical ignition items, making sure they actually fit the car before leaving. Cable ties, spare fuel pipe, oil, water, brake fluid, electrical wire of various sizes, binding wire to fix broken things, duct tape, a ratchet strap (doubles as a tow rope) jump leads, electrical tape, disposable gloves, grease, a phone and means to charge it. Know how to use “What Three Words” as a locator. disposable overalls, rag,  rad seal, exhaust bandage.

Having done the miles before and assembled the kit, go, whichever way is convenient and suits your journey, enjoy, tell us all about it when you get back. Bonnes Vacance!

[128Participant]

Jack

What a very prompt and helpful reply. Many thanks.  My Light 15 is also from 1950 first registered but I believe made in 1949.  I am a retired mechanical engineer. Over the many years I have owned this car (bought for £20 in 1966) I have done a lot of work on it including eg taking the engine out to fix the clutch but I have not done engine or gearbox rebuilds (hopefully not required on this trip!). As I live in Salisbury, only 20 minutes drive from Andrew Galt’s works, I leave most of the work on this car to him and instead work on my 1937 Austin 10, my wife’s Morris Traveller and my 1970 BSA, 1961 Norton Dominator and 1930 AJS motorcycles. I am reasonably electrically competent having worked in the power station industry and on many old vehicles over the years. I had in mind to submit this query as a short article to FP (deadline this Sunday) as not all members take part in the forum. I would then follow it up in later editions with the advice given and the experience. Would you mind? You have answered most of the questions and given me renewed confidence but there might be some mileage in still putting it in FP.  Like you, I rarely drive at night now despite having had one cataract operation which did not seem to cure the problem of dazzle.

Should have included: As this car is not subject to MOTs I have no proof of its safety. Do I need to get one or some proof if challenged abroad?

Best wishes

Nigel

[Jack PeppiattParticipant]

Nigel,

I only avoid driving at night in France due to the headlamp issue, otherwise I use it here night or day. I am not aware of any issue with the non-MOT status of UK cars, but then I have not been stopped or had an accident. I have a pull-up blind in the rear window of the TA, which stops a lot of the light scatter from following vehicles and seems to help with bright headlamps being reflected back and forth on our upright’ish glass.

You are welcome to put it in the comic by all means. I shall be attending the 90th in Clement-Ferrand  in May are you going?

I should have added that just for a larf, last year we counted pot holes. UK from Oxford to Portsmouth 10 to the power of n, France 1 in nearly 2000 miles, using all manner of road from Motorway to secondary country lanes. Traffic conditions, light to moderate except in larger towns. Road manners, really very good in France and Spain. You asked about ULEZ, there is a good French Gov site which gives details of current zones. Just avoid Paris and the very largest cities, there will be more, but a sticker can be purchased for a modest fee

Jack

 

[JonathanParticipant]

I’m a long way from an expert in any of this but would think adding a (loaded) grease gun to the list bearing in mind the service interval might be prudent?

[BernieParticipant]

Nigel,

As a regular long-haul Tractionist, I fully endorse the advice from Jack and Jonathan.

With respect to the MoT situation, although not compulsory, I would certainly recommend you have it checked over “professionally” in advance of a major sortie.

I actually have all my vehicles MoT tested annually just so another pair of eyes checks them over without the benefit of my rose-tinted specs.  If stopped for any reason I can then show the car was at least certified street-legal within the last 12 months.

Bonne route – i’ll give you a wave if we cross paths.

B…..

[128Participant]

My thanks to Jonathan. You are probably right about a grease gun but I have to admit that greasing the traction is one of my least favourite jobs and I have recently been farming it out to our local traction expert when he is doing other jobs on the car. One has also to jack up the front wheels in turn to complete the front end greasing. This and the inevitable greasy mess I get myself into when doing this (or any other greasing job on the other cars and bikes) makes me very reluctant to undertake it in the car park of whatever hotel we will be staying in!  I think I had better aim to drive abroad less than the distance prescribed between greasings!

Nigel

[Joseph DobsonParticipant]

Dear Nigel,

I have not long returned from a trip to our house in the Charente.  I took the ferry from Newhaven to Dieppe and back with an overnight sailing.  A few things cropped up that caused concern. On the auto routes my bank card was no recognised  when offered up on the screen for payment, fortunately my friend who I was travelling with allowed me to use his.  I would try to avoid Rouen as the route directions seem not to lead anywhere and I found it difficult to find a way out.  Check that your points, plugs, leads and distributor are all in good condition.  Unfortunately my points worked loose and caused a difficult and erratic journey back to the ferry from Le Mans where we had an overnight stay. I did not realise this was the problem until we were back in the UK.  I have since bought a new distributor from Chris.  5% petrol is available easily but I advise taking a lead replacement additive and an additive that reduces the effects of ethanol.  I work on the basis that if the car is working fine in the UK then it will be similarly OK in France so I did not take a huge selection of tools.

Joseph

[Dave ThornleyParticipant]

As they say noting ventured nothing gained. Age of car , and yourself should not pose any problem. If you have not got an MOT might be worth getting one or at least make sure your insurance company is aware there is no MOT. Take what spares you can so they are available if you do breakdown even though you might not be fitting them. At least in France your much more likely to come across a breakdown engineer who has actually seen a traction before.

[BernieParticipant]

I get the impression that Dave feels as I do concerning MoT testing.

Possession of a current certificate – particularly when there is no legal requirement for the vehicle to be tested – will generally assure even a cynical third party that the vehicle was recently  considered road-legal and show that the owner clearly demonstrates a responsible attitude to road safety.  In the event of a difficult situation arising (here or abroad), I believe those two points alone are likely to make any dealings less traumatic.

B….

[Roger GrixParticipant]

Hello Nigel,

Most of your queries have been answered, I think, but I will throw in my sixpenny worth.

As regards your age, I am now 75 and have no plans to give up. I have driven down to our house in the Pyrénées 3 times now, or maybe 4, touring the east of France on the way back on one occasion and Brittany on the way down, via Jersey in 2022. I would just advise that you don’t go crazy trying to cover enormous daily distances. I love driving the traction but the brakes and steering do take their toll. I try not to do more than about 400km per day.

I have always managed to get 5% (E5) petrol but it is not available in all petrol stations. Smaller ones will not have enough storage tanks to hold all grade of fuel and E5 will be the first to go. Larger supermarkets will usually have the full range, as will most motorway services. However, beware of motorway pricing which can be extremely variable and expensive. I have not tried E10 in my L15, not because a drop in power worries me too much but I do worry about what the Ethanol might be doing to the alloys in the fuel pump and carb. I did once accidently put E10 in my 1993 Chrysler Voyager and it was almost undriveable.

When we are travelling, we frequently use B&B hotels and have found them generally good. They do just that, B&B, but they always have 3rd party eateries in the vicinity. You can usually book on-line at short notice and have automated check-in so you can arrive at any time. There is a range of other chains, Kyriad, Formule 1, Ibis to name a few. These are mostly outside the city centre, easily accessible (but not always well signposted), often just off the motorway/main road.

With regard to LEZ or ZFE (Zones à Faibles Emissions) full details are available here:

https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/countries-mainmenu-147/france

You may have to accept a warning from your software as their security certificate appears to have expired.

On this site, if you choose your city and scroll a long way down, you will come to “Exemptions” which includes “Historic Vehicles”.

Historic Vehicles are exempt from restrictions. That is not to say that the local plod will know this. French Véhicules de Collection have to have a Controle Technique when they are registered and, subsequently every 5 years. I keep my car MOT’d so that if I am asked (I never have been), I can prove that it has recently been certified OK.

Assuming that your V5C states historic and you have an MOT, there should not be a problem.

On speed limits which you did not mention, A few years ago France introduced a nationwide limit of 80 kph on non-dual carriageway roads. Some départements have raised it back to 90 kph BUT note: unless there is a specific notice to say that the limit is 90, the 80 limit applies.

Good luck, enjoy the roads, the wine and the atmosphere of la belle France.

Roger_G

[128Participant]

Thanks all for very prompt and helpful replies. My wife and I have engaged with a trip advisor from Lonely Planet to sort out the details which are hoped to take us all the way to the SW of France pursuing our interests which include steam and other trains.

The car is partially dismantled at present for repairs to the speedo (huge swings by the needle above about 45mph) excessively lethargic wiper motor and leak from petrol tank (suspected breather pipe).

Anyone know of a good petrol tank repairer?

Nigel

[Richard MooreParticipant]

Couple of points I’d add based on my recent experience of driving here (I live near Libourne/Bordeaux now). The acceptance of UK bank cards by the supermarkets seems to vary a bit. We have had UK debit cards randomly rejected. We have also had our Wise forex card rejected too and that is registered in France and pays out in Euros. But it’s so random (and rare) that I can only think it’s a bank security check that’s bouncing them rather than the specific pump. In general the Wise card which has a french IBAN and where I’m paying in Euros is generally accepted everywhere. And of course paying for gas in France means they take a bigger amount of cash from your account than you’re actually paying at the pump (it gets refunded a few hours later) so avoid straying too close to your limits on debit cards.

Oh and we’ve also had the Wise card rejected on a few occasions by the peage…

So I guess my top tip would be don’t rely on one form of payment. Case in point- we’re currently renting a car from LeClerc. Last month we used my Wise card for the rental and they took the deposit (1500E) of the card. This month it bounced so I had to use a credit card. Go figure.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by Richard Moore.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by Richard Moore.

[128Participant]

Thanks for continuing good advice. Bit worried about the card rejection problem; does this only apply to debit cards? I was proposing to use my Barclaycard credit card backed up by my bank debit card. It would be very embarrassing to be refused at a peage.

[Roger GrixParticipant]

I see that there is a problem with card payments at the toll booths and, as you say, that could be embarrassing.

We have had an account with Ulys for a long time and have a “badge” which is held in a holder stuck to the windscreen. This is sensed by the detectors at the toll booth and automatically opens the barrier and debits the account, which is collected from our French bank account, retrospectively.

I have been having a look this evening and, it seems, that you do not have to have a French bank account to open a Ulys account and get a badge. According to the Ulys site you have to have an account in a SEPA country (Single European Payment Area). Apparently UK remained in SEPA after Brexit, so it should be possible to open an account with a UK bank account.

There are various options which only charge an account fee for days/months in which they are used, so there is no ongoing payment when you are not using the badge.

If you can establish an account, it saves endless hassles. You pass through in the designated Télépéage lanes at the entry and exit points. There are even 30 kph lanes on some toll areas where you do not even have to stop.

(We take great delight in sailing through in English plated cars when everybody thinks that we don’t know what we are doing).

I include some links below which may help. I would be interested to know is you are successful. Site available in English or French.

https://ulys.vinci-autoroutes.com/en/

Clicking “Subscribe” on the monthly option takes you here:

https://abonnement2.vinci-autoroutes.com/?code=EVA3&lang=en

https://www.telepaiement.dgfip.finances.gouv.fr/stl/satelit.web?templatename=accueilinfoedito&codeedito=PL10&retourliste=PL

Bonne chance

Roger_G

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